Hmmm... To me, pervasive is actually misleading. From what I understand, the leading definition of pervasive is "to become spread throughout all parts of: Spring pervaded the air." [Dictionary.com]
Now, if you mean that the game is common, and therefore easy to spread, then I guess I'd rather call the games a completely new name entirely. It seems to me that this category (pervasive games) does not fit into LARPs, RPGs, boardgames, or parlor games. It seems to be a mixture of all of them... I found this site while looking at your games on BoardGameGeek, and I'm very pleased to have found it since my favorite game is Werewolf (or Redscare as we play it - rethemed with the Cold War). Werewolf can pretty much be considered a parlor game, although it did not originate during Victorian times. However, I notice that Werewolf is considered a pervasive game by this site, to some extent...
Maybe you should tell us what it means to you? It seems that there is quite a confusion over this label...
EDIT1:
Below I have included your own definition (to the best of my knowledge). From those couple of paragraphs, I can now see where you are going with these games. They are my favorite kind as well, so I hope I can help. Forgive my "longwindedness" as I proceed:
After reading that, I can say that I still see pervasive games as not being clear enough, yet, I see why there is such a struggle to put a name on an awesome genre such as this... My suggestion is that we simply brainstorm new names as a community until one fits (or we have a vote). It will be hard, I mean, Werewolf doesn't even match the definition that I have pasted below... Hmmm...
"Ludocity is a collection of pervasive games, street games and new sports - social forms of play that take place in public spaces, such as city streets, parks and public buildings.
Some of the games on Ludocity overlap with theatre, painting, dance, and other art forms. Some of them use balloons, lumps of coal, huge sheets of paper, mp3 players, elaborate costumes, and short-range radio broadcasts. All of them have been released under a creative commons licence, giving everyone permission to run that game for free, wherever and whenever they like."
NOTE TO SELF: Always read front page of websites before commenting in the forum :)
The traditional meaning of "pervasive" here is that the game pervades its environment - one way of interpreting that is that it uses the pre-existing city as a playing area, and can unfold around unwitting members of the public. IPerG talk of games which are "tightly interwoven with our everyday lives through the objects, devices and people that surround us and the places we inhabit".
I'm still working on my own definition. It's currently "a game that pervades its environment or its spectators, or is social to the point of performance" - if a game I'm working on is lacking all of those, then I need to change something. Basic around-a-table Werewolf fits into the last of those, but a lot of other games do as well (right back to Victorian parlour games), so there probably needs to be a clearer line drawn to find a useful definition in there.
Okay, okay, I see your point. A vote and change is not needed then. I wasn't sure if you coined the term or another did, but now I see that it is something that has been around for awhile.
The question still remains about the dividing line, like you said. I'll have to think on this one a bit and do a little more research...
I have a rant about this stored up - having spoken to some interactive/promenade theatre people, I think 'pervasive games' describes a particular area of the graph of all social/fictive performance events. I need a diagram to explain it, though. Could write up as a piece for the Sandpit blog?
I agree with you, Kevan. I think pervasive games have to use the environment in which they are played. That includes scenery and people. I wouldn't really class Werewolf as a pervasive game, though: I think it crosses over with boardgames to much. However, Werewolf does have that all important 'active' factor: people are chatting over the top of the game and bantering. I think that makes a pervasive game as well: several layers can be happening at the same time. Strategy, 'serious' talking, teamwork and tactics all happen alongside fun, bantering and messing about. When I first found this site through Project Wonderful, I thought "Wow! A big site full of wide-games!" However, now I realise Pervasive games can be more than that: they can make you stop and think and make points points and political comment. Just my tuppence.
Well, I think pervasive games can contain board game attributes. Peads, what you're referring to is metagaming. Yes, games like Diplomacy and Werewolf transcend the boundaries of a "normal boardgame" because you find yourself trusting and doubting people on account of things they have done outside of that particular game. Therefore, I see both of the aforementioned games as being pervasive. However, Diplomacy can be argued either way because it actually HAS a board, as opposed to Werewolf which can be played with only a few bits of paper (effectively making it a "parlor-type" game). Games like Standoff can't be considered pervasive if we consider Werewolf a boardgame, so I'm still of the definite opinion that Werewolf is not a boardgame...
I've changed my mind since my last comment... I think Werewolf/Mafia are actually pervasive games as they cause meta-gaming (as you've said) between players. It's more than player-interaction: it takes to a much grander level where people are not looking at people's actions but the thought processes behind those actions. Also, what's your BGG username, BigBur? Mine's Peads (same as here).
I don't have a BGG account now. I mean, I used to, but this guy started stalking me, and I was just spending too much time on there anyway, haha. But yeah, sorry if I sounded really cold in my last post on this thread. I was just trying to say that I consider that type of game a pervasive game.
You didn't sound cold at all! Anyway, I think for a board/card game to be a pervasive game it has to be, as you've said be very minimalist, therefore encouraging role-play.
After the Weekender, someone (I think Simon Katan?) used the term "social games" to describe Werewolf and the Werewolf killers. Now, although you could argue that any game you play with other people is 'social' in some sense, I like that term, because a big part of what makes these games compelling is that the rules create situations where social cues are important, in a way that traditional boardgames don't.
Mind you, under that definition, poker is a social game.
I'd also say that, if a game can be pervasive if it requires "considering the thought processes behind a player's actions" or "trusting and doubting people on account of things they have done outside of that particular game", poker must therefore be a pervasive game, too.
I'm not sure that Werewolf, Ponzi! etc. can really be deemed pervasive games without stretching the definition of 'pervasive' so far that it includes lots of traditional games.
I tend to describe Sand Pit as social *and* pervasive gaming to avoid having to go further than this: any game which is not exclusively a board game, a card game, a dice game or a computer game...
I suppose I need to think about where to draw my line...
Are we maybe looking at a large collection of sub categories though, which have varying amounts in common other than that they are newish and playful and not that numerous? In which case, maybe the group will more obviously spread out over time and we'll have a series of game styles.
It feels a little like we're physical anthropologists trying to piece together the evolution of H.sapiens with only a handful of samples - you want it to be a continuum but the evidence looks like separate species, but then you get more samples and you start to struggle to insert divisions... ho hum.
Jaakko Stenros and Markus Montola have published alot excellent material on this subject. They have both worked alot with development of pervasive games. Check out their arcticles and books - It opend my eyes to what Pervasive Games is